Belibra,

would you say that the west bank belongs to israel in the same way that indian reserves belong to canada?

If not, why?

American wounded by Israeli troops has surgery
By KARIN LAUB, AP
11 hours ago

RAMALLAH, West Bank — An American activist struck in the head by a tear gas canister fired by Israeli troops in the West Bank was in serious condition Saturday after undergoing surgery, hospital officials said.

Tristan Anderson, 38, of Oakland, Calif., was wounded Friday in the West Bank village of Naalin, during a protest against Israel's separation barrier. In the past year, four Palestinians have been killed and scores injured by Israeli troops putting down weekly stone-throwing protests against the barrier, which cuts off Naalin from 300 acres of olive groves.

On Friday, several hundred protesters marched from the village toward the barrier. The Israeli military said there was heavy stone-throwing and troops fired tear gas. Demonstrators said the stone-throwing was sporadic.

Anderson did not throw any stones, said Jonathan Pollack, an Israeli activist who was in Naalin.

Most of the demonstrators, including Anderson, had returned to the village when the American was hit in the forehead and fell to the ground, said a friend, Gabrielle Silverman, who was several feet away from him. The fist-sized canister fractured his skull, she said.

"Nothing was happening in the immediate area where we were, or anywhere else," Silverman said Saturday.

Troops kept firing tear gas as Anderson was being moved into a Palestinian ambulance, Silverman said.

Pollack said the ambulance carrying Anderson had to wait 15 minutes at an Israeli checkpoint, until an Israeli ambulance arrived to take him to Tel Hashomer Hospital near Tel Aviv because Palestinian vehicles are not permitted to enter Israel.

Anderson underwent surgery and was in serious condition, said Orly Levi, a Tel Hashomer spokeswoman. Silverman said skull fragments and a portion of his right frontal lobe were removed. He also suffered major trauma to the bone surrounding his right eye, she said.

Anderson and Silverman arrived in the region in February and had planned to spend three months in Israel, the Palestinian territories and neighboring countries, Silverman said.

His injury revived complaints by human rights activists that Israeli troops often use excessive force in dispersing West Bank protests. The Israeli military says stone-throwing poses a threat to troops, and several officers have been injured by rocks.

Some of the land yes I do see it in the same context Stark. It has been established though that the two groups cannot live in the same place. In Israel however, there are Arabs who live in their own communities and also within the Jewish communities and largely there are no problems.

At this point israel has purchased much of this Judea section. It is not a question of what belongs to who but more of a question of how to make peace. I would agree that some of the land mostly the Judea part should have an Israeli presence and folks living there but this is considered not on target by the demonizers who only see black and white, us against them mentality. I am for coming up with a plan that provides peaceful coexistence, This entire thread is an example of the demonizers at work. Note the post above this one, by sketxchy, there is nothing that is more important to that demonizer and hate mongerer than a demostration getting out of hand and the police responding with tear gas. There are no bigger problems that bother this hate mongerer. This coward, doesn't go to the front lines but sits back, fat and happy in Canada, and the others like him, and promote their Jew Hatred like this thread. Like this is the biggest news item that is out there, but these provacatuers, this is what he posts about. They go to a demonstration, act violent and the police respond.

The problem for Israel is that every time they withdraw from land in the context of Oslo, they are met with more violence.

This was shown recently when Israel withdrew from Gaza and then was met by rockets. Instead of spending their time building a society, for example, Israel had employed 100,000 Gazan Arabs in that vegetable business there, this was all used by hanas to send rockets.

http://www.latimes.com/ne...mar20,0,4462034.story


Some rights groups have claimed Israel violated the rules of war in its recent killing of Palestinians. Now accounts from Israel's own ranks seem to support the claims. An investigation is ordered.

By Richard Boudreaux
March 20, 2009

Reporting from Jerusalem ** Two months after ending its assault on the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army was confronted Thursday by the first public allegations from within its ranks of unwarranted killings and other abuses of Palestinian civilians.

The reports in a military institute's newsletter resembled accounts given by many Palestinians during and after the winter offensive. In gripping language cited by two Israeli newspapers, they appeared to support contentions by some human rights groups that Israel had violated the laws of war.

One squad leader said he argued with his commander over rules of engagement that allowed the army to clear out houses by shooting the residents without warning.

"When we entered a house, we were supposed to bust down the door and start shooting inside and just go up story by story," he was quoted as saying. "Each story, if we identify a person, we shoot them. I asked myself: 'How is this reasonable?'"

A second squad leader said that in a separate case a sniper shot and killed a woman and two children because of miscommunication with the Palestinians and between Israeli units. Soldiers quoted by the daily Haaretz also said wanton destruction of civilian property was common.
...
In another incident, a different squad leader said an elderly woman was shot dead on orders of a company commander as she walked on a road about 100 yards away.

That squad leader said he argued with his commander over the rules of engagement.

Another soldier quoted in the reports said troops felt they could write "Death to the Arabs" on the walls of homes, toss furniture out the windows and spit on family pictures "just because you can."
...
"The ones who finally let the dark secrets out were the soldiers in the combat units," Harel wrote. "Somewhere along the way their moral warning lights went off."


** LA Times
























Oh noes! The Los Angeles Times is now spreading Hamas propaganda...
















Even worse, Israeli soldiers are spreading anti-Semitic lies

it's refreshing to see IDF soldiers provide witness accounts of what can only be described as wanton murder of civilians, and that it isn't being covered up. this gives me hope of greater accountability than i've witnessed historically in the military establishment in israel.
the divide between the secular and religious aspects of the IDF has finally made the haaretz. that's a good thing.

^ What are your thoughts on the role that israel played in helping develop hamas into the organization it is today? Ie. Giving them money, arms and intel?

Im not really going anywhere with this, just wanted to point out that Hamas would not be an issue if Israel had not developed them into a well organized and funded terror organization.

Whats really cute is that Trainspotter and Mythos and the crew were spending most of their time on here criticizing Israel, while their own PRECIOUS IRAN was committing and still is committing worse atrocities.

Its so funny, the constant Israel bashing directs criticism away from Arab Kings and Rulers who enslave and brutalize their populations.

There are very few threads on Iran here, mostly anti Israeli pulp.

So Mythos, Train, Sketchy, you guys are sooo funny. Spending all this time on Israel, while you ignore your own atrocities.

Whats great about the recent Arab upurisings is for once, they cant blame the Jews.

I agree. The Arab kings and rulers who enslave and brutalize their populations are no better than the Israelis who indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians.

G8 & 20 anyone?